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#1 2011-03-28 15:56:33

atang1
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Registered: 2006-03-30
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Toughbook cf-25 with Win98 ? Not compatible all the way ? cloud VM

Toughbook cf-25 was made years ago with Pentium and 96 mB of drams. But it has no modem ,ethernet, USB or cdrom(if you have floppy instead). How to use it is difficult at best if no cdrom. So, Win98SE was installed on this laptop.

First, many drivers are longer than what a floppy can hold. In those days you have zip drives connected by parallel port or 25 pin scsi connector. And these removable disks can be upto 250 mB or 1 gB in size.

The pcmcia was 5 volts and 16 bit limited. Many pcmcia cards can not be used, and Win95 drivers for 16 bit cards are not neessarily usable on Win98SE So, finding compatibilty in hardware is not easy.

Win95 can use 8 mB of memory plus virtual memory of 750 mB(2 gB hdd). Win98SE can use 24 mB of memory and the same 750 mB of virtual memory to run the same computer. The extra memory is used for Win98SE architecture. Not just text and foobar for graphics.

One of the Microsoft operating system compatibility issues are backward compatible. Then software module can work if the name is the same and date code is newer.

This runs into trouble when Wisecom pcmcia wifi/b drivers has Win98(Win98 works on Win95), but installs WinME/2000 drivers on Win98SE, but does not work. It also has WinXP drivers  of different names or date, otherwise will be installed in Win98SE too.

So, we have to learn how to work Win98 with cf-25 bios and architecture.

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2011-03-28 15:56:33

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#2 2011-03-28 16:40:25

atang1
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Re: Toughbook cf-25 with Win98 ? Not compatible all the way ? cloud VM

To use cf-25 on the internet; we need dial up modem and wifi/b pcmcia cards of 16 bit. On ebay we can find them, but the drivers must be Win98SE. The wiFi/b when busy on hotspot will have problems and must swtch to dialup modem.

This is difficult on Win98SE but easy on WinXP. On 98SE, you have to remove the Wifi/b pcmcia to switch to dialup modem on pcmcia slot. Internet connect module on Win98SE can not do any switching of connecting devises, nor the pcmcia socket changing active status.

It does not seem that we can switch serial port external modem to pcmcia WiFi to run browser either.

It will take some research to be able to get Win98SE working on the internet as easy as Win95 and  OriNOCO.

Is it because cf-25 chipset is older than Win95(originally had PI 120 mhz MKI/II/III, 8 mB, 16 mB or 32 mB fixed memory respectively, then you can add 1 stick of 16 or 32 or 64 mB edo 60 ns sodimm)? Win98SE is too new and bios maybe too new too for pcmcia WiFi/b in 1997? Phoenix bios made it basically not adjustable, because it was written in clean room, works but does not offer any variation to the laptop architecture or future added components.

The bios in cf-25 can not manage boot order of cdrom, and does not have bios to operate cdrom(operates LS120) and hdd to install operating system such as win98. Many people use scsi zip drives(installed by floppy) to load operating system beyond floppy install of Win95. Bios Version 1.40 may have boot order in supervisor options. Download the bios name drdflash.exe on the internet.

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#3 2011-03-29 14:00:44

atang1
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Re: Toughbook cf-25 with Win98 ? Not compatible all the way ? cloud VM

Why is Pentium I usable still? On the internet, google search engine is mostly text, but google instant packets can be pixel scanning hdmi instead of html vga slowness. If your work needs Google help on the side of your work laptop; Pentium I laptop can use WiFi/n or /b to speed up anything you want to know.

Google instant has been questioned of its wisdom, why keyword input change answers rightaway is helpful. Its the speed of answers base on keyword changes?

Would you use a slow cpu to do this kind of work? Sure. but text is downloaded by pixels directly from Google servers. Google search engine had patents on the way they do data storage and searching pixel matching, not character matching.

Google instant is now extended into reduced pixel webpages of data transfer of thumbnails to speed broadband, then allow more data transfer channels.

Its a very important technology, that faces us in the next ten years.

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#4 2011-03-30 10:44:22

atang1
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Re: Toughbook cf-25 with Win98 ? Not compatible all the way ? cloud VM

Toughbook cf-25 exposed some of window drivers problems on backward compatibility, and the rollback scheme does not work. A Wisecon wifi/b drivers had win98, ME/2000 and XP. Win98 drivers will not work with win98SE and installed ME/2000 drivers, which also does not work. WinxP drivers will work on XP sp1, but not XP sp3 installed. If you rollback the drivers to an older version, it still only works with an older operating system; so it is useless to rollback.

To use any components for cf-25, we have to find any pcmcia device that has a driver for Win98SE. Unless you go back to Win95c to get drivers for 95c version. This can be done using ebay auction to find older devices that you saw drivers in Win98SE(show all listed) And Win95c also listed drivers in the operating system.

Once, you bought some devices that you have seen drivers in your operating system, you chances of using your laptop with more capability will be satisfactory.

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#5 2011-03-31 09:07:01

atang1
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Re: Toughbook cf-25 with Win98 ? Not compatible all the way ? cloud VM

Stranger than fiction on Win98se drivers? Bought old pcmcia Xircom rm56v1 modem. downloaded Xircom 856 kB drivers on floppy.

Installed in Win98se, but got Microsoft standard 56k modem drivers instead.

However, on 5 telephone devices in parallel, data transfer is only around 33.6 kBps. Have to remove at least one telephone device to get better data transfer(modem input impedance adjustment).

Apparently, the floppy pointed to the rm56v1 plug and play number and installed a standard driver from Microsoft all for one modem drivers.

This kind of componentized all in one drivers started in Linux with xvesa 791, 792 drivers. Ethernet drivers are often all in one. dhcpcd(1.3.x) is built on ethernet drivers with some other dependency files for other look alike wifi or set-top boxes. Dialup external modem is all in one drivers too.

For Linux and use of older laptops, drivers can be all in one and with a few extra dependency files for variation of components(instruction sets). Dhcpcd(5.x) is a good illustration of how to use mini pci bcm4318/g chipset for /n drivers. If you have other chipset for wifi, just replace it with broadcom wifi($10).

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#6 2011-04-01 13:55:53

atang1
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Re: Toughbook cf-25 with Win98 ? Not compatible all the way ? cloud VM

Toughbook cf-25 was made about 15 years ago. It has PI 166 mhz and 96 mB of EDO rams. no modem, ethernet or WiFi, but was use by police cruisers. It has three pcmcia slots for 5v 16 bit cards.

To use it today, we need wifi or modem or ethernet at home. The limitation of 96 mb of ram is obvious.

Using Widows however, has limited websites available on IE5.5 or Firefox 1.5. We have to use Linux tinycore or SliTaz perhaps. Puppy is working on a baby version, if drivers can be reduced to all in ones. Linux does have some very efficient browsers to be used.

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#7 2011-04-07 07:40:01

atang1
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Re: Toughbook cf-25 with Win98 ? Not compatible all the way ? cloud VM

Quicker way to add software via pcmcia card reader(cf card and smart memory) in 16 bit 5v pc cards. It uses Win98se standard ide hard disk controller drivers. And it can update drivers thru dialup modem connection from Microsoft website.

They are good for 128 mB memory. Most application or drivers are less than 10 mB for Pentium I cpu. Even 50 mB cf cards are quite useful to transfer a few files of interest from one computer to another via pcmcia slots(sneaker network with natural firewall built in).

This is more desirable than using floppies to transfer(drag and drop into windows explorer desktop) files to Toughbook cf-25.

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#8 2011-04-08 17:09:31

atang1
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Re: Toughbook cf-25 with Win98 ? Not compatible all the way ? cloud VM

Toughbook cf-25 looks good with Win98se now that WiFi/b is installed, thru many Microsoft drivers update thru dialup modem connection.

But its amazing , I have one cf-25 that had a copy of the IBM Win95. It has Toughbook tool kit to be copied on 9 floppies, to diagnose and repair drivers. it will save codes in dram to disk, if you accidently power off, anytime.

Right now I am trying to update this laptop with modem and wifi. IE4 was updated to Earthlink IE5.5. What it still needed was the Macromedia flash installed before IE5.5 was installed by earthlink version. I was also lucky to have installed internet download manager from cnet, making Win95 good to use pcmcia wifi/n.

I have asked Adobe flash to have a version for each operating system, going back to Win95. Instead of versions for browsers. After all media players are in operating system desktop. And Adobe is now very good at autoupdate of their flash with active-x directory to keep it compatible with new protocols. Flash basically converts digital vga and html to mpeg4/h.264 with active-x directory to pixel scanning hdmi monitors in the end.

Flash player takes webpage, filters it and send to the display monitor. It could also take the media player media and filter it to send to pixel scanning display monitor, frame by frame.

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#9 2011-04-19 13:38:28

atang1
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Re: Toughbook cf-25 with Win98 ? Not compatible all the way ? cloud VM

Win98se has very few drivers for wireless lan adaptors.

The drivers for WiFi/b has to be installed without finding the adaptor. Then when the adaptor is installed in pcmcia or USB ports, It picks up the drivers and utility to configure the adaptor to the radio signals of free hotspot.

Some drivers had problems. Mostly the adaptor was not found by Win98se. You need pcmcia chipset controller drivers to find the PNP wifi/b adaptor first, then install the WiFi/b drivers then configure to get adaptor working with browser.

So, I got the wiFi adaptor working(16 bit pcmcia). But carelessly trying to install another WiFi/b, and all the software(16 bit/32 bit pcmcia drivers) got conflicts on Toughbook cf-25 cardbus. Most drivers do not tell you whether they are 32 bit cardbus or 16 bit 5v.

Probably had to reinstall  a clean Win98 then SE, then pcmcia chipset drivers, then pcmcia wifi/b drivers, then wifi utility to get the wifi/b working again. Older operating system did not have the wifi adaptors designed right in the computer architecture, layers of pcmcia controller and device drivers are separated and should be installed individually.

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#10 2011-04-20 11:12:08

atang1
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Registered: 2006-03-30
Posts: 2705

Re: Toughbook cf-25 with Win98 ? Not compatible all the way ? cloud VM

WiFi/b drivers for pcmcia has to be compatible with TI(16 bit, 5v), ricoh and NEC(32 bit, 3.3 v cardbus) chipsets for use with Win95/98se.

It has to have USB1.1 or 2.0 compatibility. USB 1.1, 12 mbps limitation can still run certain data rates of wifi/b. Certainly 1 or 2 mbps will work great with wifi/b on hotspot.

This drivers adjustment for older laptops may be something that we can get some hobbiest to handle, once they disassemble the components of each form factor of WiFi/b that can be used by Microsoft operating systems. Redmond people themselves maybe the most interested to get more customers to use older OS, then switch to newer OS cheap later on older laptops.

Drivers should be designed to work with the least speed 1 mbps and by short codes. Then you can add more speed selections such as 2 mbps, or 4 mbps, etc. in data rate selections(clocks). Then for /g upto 54 mbps for nonstop downloads of movies or softwre programs. Then(super highway) uses mimo /n with upto three(IF) parallel data channels  of /g speed. Six parallel data channels use positive and negative single side bands of /g method.

WiFi is still relatively simple. The traffic control is by dhcp assignment of ip address which can also be clock speed of data rate. Currently WiFi is self configured for maximum data rate speed and then slowed down if overheated. This creates overload on the router having to use hypervisors to change speed all the time(overhead excessive on cpu and overheating semiconductors).

Once the WiFi system is fully understood, Maximum number of users is the way design criteria is established.

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#11 2011-05-13 21:13:34

atang1
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Re: Toughbook cf-25 with Win98 ? Not compatible all the way ? cloud VM

Toughbook cf-25 was the first design of Panasonic. It has a phoenix bios which needs to be upgraded. Cf-25 has three models, MKI, MKII, and MKIII. There are drivers and bios upgrade still available on the internet from Panasonic, the upgrade are also for W3.1,W95, W98 and WNT4. WinXP can not be run very well because of the requirement of 128 mB of dram. CF-25 can have a maximumof 96 mB of EDO memory. W95c and w98se can be used, but some upgrade of drivers and inf files are necessary if you load the operating system from Microsoft. If Toughbook operating system was loaded when it came, you are probably ok without upgrade of all the files.

This bios and operating system problem came up on pcmcia WiFi drivers. w98se drivers loaded and used ok, but later other wiFi drivers corrupted the original working pcmcia drivers for 802.11b prism(intersil) drivers. This happened on MKII unit, which needs files to upgrade before periphrals are installed.

These old laptops, if WiFi is available is very nice to run browsers(IE5.5) just for Google. IE6 may also be used on w98se. However, W95 network apps did not have WiFi included. Drivers(year 2001) had to be all inclusive, I have used pcmcia WL110 made by Lucent with HP deivers for W95 on Armada 1540DM laptop. Drivers made in 2003 usually can only be used by W98se. Its the way drivers are installed. W95 WiFi drivers are installed by itself for pnpos to boot into the registry. W98se does the same except it has WiFi allowance(files) to use with the WiFi drivers supplied by the Wifi manufacturer. WinXP has the WiFi drivers installed first, then upon booting will finish the driver installation from the driver components in the XP operating system.

Microsoft does then autoupdate from the browser version, if you use ISP or their dotnet strategy. With Wifi and no ISP, autoupdate depends on browser version update only. Microsoft can still update your operating system via adobe flash and cookies, reporting to one of their websites(browser error report, send or don't send). But dialup ISP can be a cheap administrator for hire in the Microsoft world.

I am working with redmond autoupdate people, and my computer gets the first generation autoupdate codes, since 2001, for bios shadowed update on the fly. Now WiFi for older laptops too. Traffic control is the system approach for enterprise class systems; it gets better, then it may retrench in a development process. DNS servers doing ipv4 and ipv6 stack has yet to be ironed out for speed.

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#12 2011-05-14 09:39:51

atang1
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Re: Toughbook cf-25 with Win98 ? Not compatible all the way ? cloud VM

The big internet traffic control job is to work out the best way to convert ipv4 to ipv6 with more indexing numbers.

This is relatively easy if you use Unix. Posix packets are easy to do packet conversion, adding ipv6 numbers to ipv4 depending on website location much the same as area code and country codes and central office codes.

The current trend is to use a stack to do either ipv4, if numbers are small, and ipv6, if numbers are larger.

These two approaches are done depending on whether you are telephone people or computer people. However, the current development is controlled by telephone people. So, internet traffic is going to be resolved in the GPS satellite locations in addition to country codes. Some GPS satellites may have to be rerouted at busy times by packet converters from ground stations(routing by ipv8).

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#13 2011-05-16 11:45:09

atang1
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Re: Toughbook cf-25 with Win98 ? Not compatible all the way ? cloud VM

cf-25 has super floppy and cdrom removable. Sometimes cdrom does not work without operating system or bios(Oak technology cdrom drivers) activating it. It has bios for models MKI, MKII, and MKIII. Research is necessary to find out how cdrom can be interchanged by reinserting?

Bios feature for MP? MP light shows when computer calls for its use. Then it passes on to hdd usage. When cmos battery goes bad, you need floppy to be in the computer. Then cdrom can be inserted for mounting the device.

Super floppy for cf-25 is not supported for models with A, C an D in the model numbers(MKI and MKII).

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#14 2011-09-14 18:55:08

atang1
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Re: Toughbook cf-25 with Win98 ? Not compatible all the way ? cloud VM

Cf-25 can only use SliTaz 3.0 text only(16 mB drams).

But it can use win98. Due to memory requirement of windows and browser. But still Win98 has only iE5.5(mobile websites) which needs autoupdate from Microsoft and adobe flash player11. No firefox can do win98.

It is only good for freecell and taipei mahjong(16 bit) games? Cf-25 has a maximum limit or 96 Mb of drams.

Opera 10.5 may still work with Win98 with 64 mB of drams. Others may also work such as netfront, access, skyfire and iris browser.

The world browser is only 1.4mB lon final version 2.4.1.5.

Ace explorer is only 1.2 mB for acesetup.exe(skin of IE5.5 and up). You need the IE5.5 in win98 to use ace explorer.(html rendering to help older browsers to read newer marking language).

More shake down when I get around to work on Cf-25 again.

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#15 2011-09-16 08:52:28

atang1
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Re: Toughbook cf-25 with Win98 ? Not compatible all the way ? cloud VM

In the past few years, cloud computing is looking at cloud virtual memory. If you can borrow memory from your ondemand server. However, first you must go back to iE5.5(ace explorer skin do html) which can work with 8 mB of drams with W95.

Can W95 be the windows9? Then use memory in the ondemand server to reduce pixels for data transmission and data storage?

We will continue to work with Microsoft for streamlined W95 and IE5.5 with added modules to enhance experience.

Previously our experience is bloated graphics. Wasting time but time is money. Productivity requires us to make our experience speedy. Make more money in a given amount of time.

Reduced pixels is based on mpeg4/h.264 and zoom ratio done by FPU. that means ondemand servers must have multiples of 8 bit FPU to zoom and store reduced pixel database.

In a paperless society, you need reliable data storage and data compression to have a record of your bank statement stored on your computer too. You don't need any graphics just the amount you have in the bank in text and maybe water mark for trust factor which matters.

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#16 2011-09-30 08:58:28

atang1
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Re: Toughbook cf-25 with Win98 ? Not compatible all the way ? cloud VM

USB dvdrw or dvdrom/cdrw often do not need drivers, because drivers are built into burner software. It will recognize any dvdrw to burn any media. So, older laptops have an advantage if you install USB2.0 in pcmcia slots. Beware that free easy burner can only copy iso. If you want to copy windows operating system disks, you need old Nero burner or NTI. Magiciso still does a great job doing tiny Linux distros; but the free trial version can not burn over 300mB iso.

There are just too many cloning or backup software, most of them deal with hdd, not copy cdrom to cd-r or cdrw.

If you are lucky to come up with pcmcia scsi cdroms, they wtill have win95/98 drivers on the internet for download. Its still fun to spread out on a desk and play cd music or vcd for movies. using headphones? Panasonic KXL-D 720/740(4x) external cdrom still command good money on ebay.

With some old laptops, you are lucky to have floppy to boot from cdrom or USB key redirecting from floppy boot. software can be downloaded from google search.

Then there is also QNX demo floppy disk to boot into text on internet with external modem too.

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#17 2011-10-13 16:46:58

atang1
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Re: Toughbook cf-25 with Win98 ? Not compatible all the way ? cloud VM

The sad thing was Firefox no longer support w98.

But Midori still does. so, cf-25 lives on. strip off all desktops and try to strip down the 10.2mB of Midori. so that W98 can run in 96 mB of drams.

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#18 2012-02-12 12:12:34

atang1
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Re: Toughbook cf-25 with Win98 ? Not compatible all the way ? cloud VM

W98 can not use Firefox 2.0 at all. the webpages are not fitted in the work space. Missing data.

we may have to go back to Firefox 1.5.012 used ok with W95C. never upgrade from Firefox 1.5.0.12; It works well with W98SE without SP6.

W98SE can use IE5.5 delivered by earthlink cd. It can add skin by ACE Explorer, but had to delete ACE to prevent shut down due to illegal operation.

W98 can use orinoco wifi drivers to download at 600 kBps even webpages.

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#19 2012-02-15 09:43:39

atang1
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Posts: 2705

Re: Toughbook cf-25 with Win98 ? Not compatible all the way ? cloud VM

W98 games can add mahjong solitaire Taipei.

W98 has to add usb drivers for mass storage devices, but the card readers may have format problems to transfer data by drag and drop.

W98 needs a powerdvd program for movies?

W98 has driver problems for video and sound chipsets of later laptops. Forcing vga to do 640x480x16 colors.

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#20 2012-02-15 19:59:50

atang1
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Registered: 2006-03-30
Posts: 2705

Re: Toughbook cf-25 with Win98 ? Not compatible all the way ? cloud VM

Many drivers on the internet specified W98, but after you download it ; then you found out that the driver is for a later version of windows. This is true of ATI M1 for W98SE and ESS Maestro 2E as well. Unfortunately they don't tell you if it only needs SP6 or not. or the drivers now needs NT or W2k? For Dell laptops, Dell W98SE installed  has drivers with neoW98 drivers which is cpi laptop. When you move the operating system to cpx laptop, te drivers do not install.

So, is there a Dell drivers package of W98SE for atiW98 for laptop cpx? Wrong approach.

Lenovo is the one to have w98 drivers for ati rage mobility M1 drivers. And once installed the display is very nice for W98. 1024x768x32 bit colors. Now at least browser is very good with the old firefox v1.5.0.12. Be very careful never to update to a later browser. It worked with orinoco 7.82 drivers.

This left the ESS drivers for Maestro 2E(wdm) not installed. More research yet to be done.

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#21 2012-02-16 11:24:26

atang1
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Registered: 2006-03-30
Posts: 2705

Re: Toughbook cf-25 with Win98 ? Not compatible all the way ? cloud VM

The firefox browsers are changing, the new ones just keeping pace on html5 development.

But the cookies had to add personal picture if available in the hdd? Personal identity needs protection and avoid miss leading facebook friends.

The apps store inventory needs to be added from others? By simply adding Dolby mobile, Mpeg4/h.264 and hdmi. Then most of the apps can be run with javascript(supported byC)?

Its changing, but remains to be pretty much the same using older webpages made of older protocol.

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